I'll admit, I haven't been here for a while, because I've been a little under the weather for the past few weeks, for various reasons that I don't want to get into right away. But I'm finally getting around back to this, and this has been on my mind for a while (and, lo and behold, it actually addresses some of the comments in general here and elsewhere).
Now, I'll admit the title may either be confusing or absurd, depending on how much credit one is willing to give me. After all, aren't people physical beings? Isn't being a human a physical existence by necessity? And you aren't really going to start positing some form of dualism, after having argued against it for some two years now, are you?
Well, in order of the listed: No, almost certainly, absolutely not. The last point should be clear enough, but the prior two, indeed, need some explanation.
I first should go out of my way to make clear that I am distinguishing what I am going to call the "human" and the "person", as I think there's a clear distinction to make. I am not distinguishing the actual use of the terms, but using each one to represent certain constructions (in other words, we use "human" differently than I will use it consistently here, and the same with "person").
On one hand, the human is the physical being, the one we can point to and see as a person. In a way, what's being observed (and, again, I am not a dualist, and am assuming this to a degree) is a coordinated energy mechanism. Energy is taken in, stored, shifted, manipulated, sent out, all in different ways as to make one. This energy forms the matter of a human, stemming all the way from the DNA to the fully formed brain and everything in between.
A human is defined strictly in terms of the physical, and conceptual terms only apply as to that they group the object, but there is nothing more than the classification of the object. I mean this in the broadest terms; genetics are no less a circumstance than a brain injury caused by a brick, and neither take precedence.
One might argue here that genetics are what would define the human, but I'll heavily digress here. After all, you'd be able to make the argument that discarded skin cells, so long as the DNA was maintained, was just as much the person as their entire head, simply for that structure. If you try and define a person as an intact human being with a specific physical structure (in other words a functioning body), the person changes constantly enough that this is hard to maintain in an ultimate sense, and even if you allow the criteria to be vague enough to only include the larger details you have to accept that humanity would be lost if the person lost their hand. You can make an exception here to define the person, but assuming we don't want to be so narrow, let's move on.
But what does that leave us with? Well, what we have here is a specific thing indeed; the exact energy location of something at a specific time would be defined as a person (energy, again, in the broadest sense; since the atomic structures are that of energy, the distinction between matter and energy is ultimately pointless). It never exists for more than an instant, and what is nothing more than its structure, with no meaning attached. Humanity, in its typical sense, vanishes; there is nothing to truly distinguish it from a pillow.
Should we equate this to the person, in so far as identity? It's been done, and it's a legitimate point of view. In fact, the idea of impermanence of existence and identity is a Buddhist principle. And, if taking a look at the world from a strictly physicalist perspective, it's the logical one.
But I'm going to argue here for human identity, and while the result may not be seen as satisfactory, for me it is enough.
The personal construction of the world, indeed, doesn't exist within such a physicalist construction. We identify certain things, be it "Bob", "bottle", or "pillow" as distinct structures of certain things. We define them as for their relationships to other structures. We also define certain relationships within those structures as more consequential to their being (in other words, I am not going to define a bottle as "made up of a solid" as much as "often holds certain substances").
With people, we similarly define within certain structures, and overlay them with other structures. Certain constructions define the person (does the person have red hair? Does she care much about others?) and we'll overlay them with superstructures that sort these constructions with value (so kindness will be definitional to our view of a person more than the red hair (please tell me I'm right about this. We really aren't so shallow that we're going to put red hair above kindness, are we?)).
Of those structures, the placement is a little tricky, but typically what we at least aspire to put first is the person's mental being over the person's physical structure, and then certain mental qualities over mental frames of reference. I say this with extreme hesitancy; do we really care if a person is inclined to, say, quality and kind of person over the social structures in which they think(for example, is the personal drive towards examination and to the ways they examine things over that they think about legal terms)? I think so, but that may be optimistic. We're also going to put the qualities which are more general to the person over time to those that don't. So we tend to put intelligence, which lasts a lifetime, over frustrated set of mind, as it lasts for only a certain period of time (assuming it's not a general tendency and mode of thinking).
We aren't going to define a person by the stricter physicalist structure. I mean, do we care about the precise brain state which a person is in over the personal quality that it entails? I don't usually think so. People don't even often know what the associated brain state is for, say, anger, so to morally elevate such a thing is ridiculous.
Are these qualities rooted in "reality", outside of people? No, not inherently. But that's a horrible discriminant. Genetics does not exist outside of people's construction; it is only by pulling certain energy structures into a related meaning that we assume it to have that it has meaning. "DNA" does not exist in a strict physicalist reality.
Indeed, it is in these relations, inside the creation of the "is and is not", and as to the comparative value of such things, that creates the person.
Are these qualities "personcentric" (hey, I make up words too!), defining people as separate from reality? Actually, no. Remember the very beginning about constructions before I got into people. Constructions and their relations are used to identify pillows as much as people.
Are they hard to measure? Yes, if not impossible. We can make educated guesses as to how certain structures would relate to people as if we were in their places, but because we essentially can't do a strict comparison of being in certain states as to definitively compare their existence, we're can only guess. I think the consensus is that there is some consensus here, but it isn't perfect, and being more open-minded helps here.
So this isn't scientific. But, considering that science is simply the inductive method, a method which is inherently flawed and limited (and, despite myth, not inherently logical at all. Quite the opposite), I don't feel uncomfortable with that at all. It has its uses, but it has also as many limits, and the principle doesn't flow well into principles of construction.
So, what am I getting to here, and why is this on my blog about autism? Well, I'm essentially arguing that autism as a personal quality should be effectively separated from the terms of the physical and into the terms of the personal. To define autism in terms of genetics or in terms of environmental factors is no different than defining compassion in terms of genetics or in terms of environmental factors? It is one thing to say that a certain thing creates or fosters something, but to say that it "is" it is a step too far.
Now, this rests in large part on my earlier post (in which I constructed autism as a personal type of existence), but assuming that we don't assume autism to be a word that simply overlaps behaviors, it is important that autism not be defined as a physical identity. If we want to, we either must accept fully what we are doing and admit we are introducing a half-hearted physicalist conclusion, and that we essentially are talking about a conceptual "all-and-nothing" (all energy, no concept).
So, to look at a specific comment (I'm not singling out this comment for reasons of argument against, but it perfectly shows the point)
We may not be able to fully explicate the genetics, but that doesn't obviate its existential value. In other words, the genetics, whatever they may be, will define the existential state of autism. The issue you identify - whether the things we identify as autistic traits comprise a peronality or a disorder - is secondary.
I would have to quite strongly argue the contrary. The genetics are in fact of no existential value to the quality. To me, it isn't nearly as important in what order or to what effect genetics has to something like, say, dedication as much as the quality itself and what it does (the only way in which it is of any value is probably as to the nature/nurture debate, if one was to make claims as to the consistency of personal identity). A person, most simply, is not a biological mechanism, even if biologically caused.
Saturday, March 15, 2008
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5 comments:
Foods have chemical and phsical composition, and they also create an experience of taste in the person.
I blindfold you, and feed you beef. You say: "Tastes like chicken!" Your personal experience of consuming the beef is the same as your experience of consuming chicken. Therefore, beef is (in the existential sense) chicken. (If it's not obvious, my point is that the conclusion is absurd, and hence the reasoning is flawed.)
To analogize: autism is to its genetic composition as chicken is to its chemical or physical composition. To define autism by reference to its affect on the person is to reduce it to a subjective ideal state.
I understand why you come to that logic, but it isn't correct here.
First of all, you can't take a single experience and draw it to the overall in such a way to describe the conception of the relations (so there is no way you can leap from "'Tastes like chicken'" to "is the same as your experience of consuming chicken". The conception isn't related to a particular in that function, especially since it relies on the particular. There is room for misconception in a conceptual framework, where our sensation of our object seems to match up to a different conceptual framework, but really applies to another one.
And you can't leap from "is the same as your experience of consuming chicken" to "is chicken", because of the mechanism of the conception. Heck, you don't need experience with the object to have a conceptual mechanism.
But let's assume these two premises, as flawed as they are,for now. You still can't bring it to any more objective conclusion that I can. I can just as well look at the basic physical underlying structure, say "Looks like corn" (not an unfounded statement), and there's no way to get around that either. In fact, it still is just a constructed, subjective grouping of something. Really, the only accurate statement in a physical reductionist view is "Looks like energy" or "Looks like matter" (which is energy), so we've still got nothing but the conceptions.
Cliff
Cliff,
I haven't been able to stop thinking about this! What a compelling debate.
Anyway, the physical reductionist view is based upon science. Scientific discovery, in turn, is based upon an abstract hypothesis, and supported by empirical observation. Science can define and differentiate substances with precision. My point - and I concede you handily dismantled my weak analogy - is that defining an existential state by affect on personhood isn't precise, and can lead to absurd conclusions.
I'm not making eye contact. Feels like autism? IS autism?
Laura,
Thank you for participating in it! I always enjoy these discussions.
I would actually disagree on two points, here, and note others.
First is that I'll readily admit that identification itself is a very messy thing. As I noted, I very much sympathize with the Eastern view point, which really tries to eliminate identification wholesale, on the grounds that it is subjective and permeable. Not my impulse, personally, but I understand why that exists.
So to the points. There's an interesting view here that I want to address, and it is in regards to the accuracy of identifying things.
In so far as substances, science is able to consistently distinguish certain physical things within its own context (i.e using the assumptions that it indeed holds about things). Ultimately, that accounts for very little. We're still defining the energy that makes up matter in relation to a construction. In other words, science basically tests certain things using assumptions of those things. A full logical reductionist view would be unable to distinguish a coke can from an eyeball, because it's essentially, at root, all the same. In order to distinguish, we tend to use the apparent spacial relations to do that, but even there we've moved right out into the realm of the conceptual. In other words, it's near impossible to have a discussion of the physical realm without getting into the realm of subjective construction.
But that was horribly tangential at some level, so let's move on from there.
Indeed, science is based as you say on the empirical evidence. But as to the empirical evidence says nothing, relatively speaking, about existence without a subjective frame. We can say that x condition occurs with y action, which is the defining mode of the scientific research. Science, indeed, is actually most technically formed on the inductive method, which holds basically holds that there is a causal nature between all things in the universe (not logically all that sound, by the way, but that's what it is). Science does not and can not say anything about existence; it tests certain things, records certain outcomes, and then applies it to the subjective frame which we have.
Essentially, genetic structure is a frame. Science really can't prove the ultimate existence of genetics any more than it can ultimately prove that we went to the Moon. It can say that x effect of genetics causes y effect on person, but it says nothing definitively about what it is recording. Extremely flawed in nature, but it works at what it is intended.
But that's the issue; identity is a category which falls right out of the scientific method by necessity! You can say that genetics cause autism, but you can't speak to the condition itself any more than prior to the statement, because defining x (as necessitated by the very construct of identity)can't be done within causality. You can assert related factors (since those are causal mechanisms), but you can't any more get at it then the subjective category.
So that's where the issue is for me, and where I come in at. Indeed, because you are outside the casual nature, it's not testable like would be required by science, an unfortunate incident of all identity.
That's not to say, even in that relation, genetic factors could not theoretically be the identifying factors. But I address that's imperfect, because you're creating an imperfect, subjective construct that isn't the thing itself in any form.
Indeed, that's why I would try and define it within the human subjective category, of the created "what is" and "what is not", because, though subjective like all identity, it in and of itself addresses the person. Is it tricky? Yes, especially considering there's a subtext, and no one else has come out and defined autism in simple terms. But I would argue for a form that does define an autistic person in terms of the personal "is" and "is not".
As to that identity, well, as you can tell, it's something I'm still working on. Complicated, really.
You know, though, I'd like to address that last sentence (plus accompaning questions). It may well be that the evolution of the term autism may, and should (in my view), become something that also has a qualitative type as well. Radical at this point, but I think that a further understanding of humanity in relation to autism may grow to that.
Anyway, the end to a long-winded comment.Thanks for reading it through!
Cliff
Which actually could have been a full post! Ooops!
Cliff
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